How Much Should The Viper Cost? Why Is It A Flop? Oppoinion Time

"Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2" (pompei426) 03/19/2014 at 20:53 • Filed to: None

0

52

Okay, if you don't know already, Chrysler is halting production of the Viper temporarily. It should also be quite apparent that very few are buying SRT's beast. If you didn't know that, check out !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . So, what is the real problem? Well, over the past few months when the Viper was brought up, people always came back to price. It's too much. Where should the price point be? Can you make the best ever Viper cheaper than the last? HELL NO. The thing is a work of art (IMO) and finally has TC so you don't kill yourself or others leaving a C&C.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

What is the problem and what is the competition? Price is obviously the big one here, but I think people still don't understand the Viper. You really have to be a fanboy to understand why there are 10 cylinders. I myself would like to see a TT V8. I've already been given shit for this, but it's called progress, sorry. I think if the Viper was in competition with the F-Type and the liking it would have a chance, but it's so much more, and downgrading such an epic car would be disheartening. So, what's the solution. The tech department has already come a long way from the predecessor. HP is still a very strong figure, though it's the same as the outgoing ACR. 0-60 in under 4s. What is missing. Is the lack of salesmanship talent the leading factor in the Vipers demise?

Has the Viper lost it's magic? What's going wrong. Please share your OPPOinion.

Battery Tender Unnecessary > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/19/2014 at 21:01

7

Make a base Viper cost $65-70k. We're talking barebones, cloth racing buckets, good steel brakes, etc. Something you could drive from the dealer to a track and have a good time in. Then do what Porsche does, offer a few performance upgrades like Carbon Brakes, adjustable suspension, etc for the people that would like to go factory for their "aftermarket" tune. Then offer the GTS for $90k. On both offer "convenience" options like extended leather, upgraded interior, etc for the people that want it.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/19/2014 at 21:11

0

No, the Viper's price is fine for what it is and it should only have a V10. The V10 is what makes a Viper, a Viper. It would be like saying that Ferrari and Lamborghini shouldn't make V12's.
What led to it's sinking sales is simple, people who have the money want an automatic transmission, because they're old and feeble and can't shift anymore.

AthomSfere > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/19/2014 at 21:14

4

What is actually great about the car? Huge engine and good numbers. Speed, not good enough really. The Nissan GTR is faster, and cheaper and has real handling. The C7 is better looking, faster around a track and has better handling.

The Viper styling has not really evolved. The 90's Viper and this... look the same! Sharpened some edges, made a few small improvements. But for each improvement there is some tacky weird design feature.

The high mount brake light:

The Viper in the stack:

It's goofy. On a $30-40k it might have worked, maybe on something like the Dart, a Civic Si, Mustang... But here?

Really, lets compare how far the Viper really came:

1997:

17 years later:

If I want crazy-ass Viper, why not save $70k and buy the 1997? It looks better, imo; performance and all else considered it is much different.

For the price, with the markup at least you can also get a used Gallardo, a 911, AMG, Masratis, Ferraris, GTR etc. etc. etc..

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > AthomSfere 03/19/2014 at 21:19

1

I have to agree. I was born in 94 and was given a 96 GTS 1:18 model and that car was really something special. The Viper used to be one of the top performers in the world, but it's fallen way behind and is making the same vehicle almost 20 years later. They have come a long way, but the 2nd gen Viper was way better for it's time that this one.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/19/2014 at 21:19

1

I think its because it's so outdated compared to other sports cars. They need to move with the times and lose the V10. I know it's heritage and everything, but how many people actually offer V10s anymore? Audi and Lamborghini, that's it. Drop a turbo 8 in there and clean up the suspension so it doesn't handle like a pig. Offer a true "base" model with manual cloth seats, no UConnect, and analog gauges. Then offer a lux model with the leather and all the gizmos and gadgets. Heck, if they wanted to, they could offer a model powered by a turbo 6 to drop prices for those who don't want the power but want the looks and luxuries.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Battery Tender Unnecessary 03/19/2014 at 21:20

0

You might want to restrain yourself before viewing this .

Deal Killer - Powered by Focus > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/19/2014 at 21:20

4

I think Chrysler is running into a few problems with the Viper. When it came out back in the early 1990's, the buyers for this car were guys in their mid-40's early 50's who grew up with large displacement sport cars and didn't mind the crude aspect of this car. They rather enjoyed it, as the 911, Corvette and other higher end sports cars just didn't have the same appeal, even though they could be had for similar or lower prices. Now, however, the Viper is easy $100k out the door, maybe a bit more. A Corvette is about 1/2 to 3/4 that, and offers far more creature comforts and drivability. A 911 is about equal money, and far more refined, with many other makes, Jaguar, Mercedes, BMW, Nissan, all offering cars of high performance and refinement. The guys who bought the Viper 20 years ago ain't interested in such a car know, and the 40 - 50 year buyer has been brought up on cars that make the Viper pretty crude for the money. Plus, you can daily a Corvette or Porsche, I'd be hard pressed to find a lot of people who would put up with a Viper on a daily basis. If Chrysler priced the Viper in the $60 - $70K range, maybe with a Hemi V-8 as an entry level car, I think it would be a more successful car. Get the butts in the seats, at a decent price point, then offer, as Batter Tender suggested, upgrades to a more powerful car.

yamahog > Battery Tender Unnecessary 03/19/2014 at 21:23

0

At that price point, does it cut too close to a fully-loaded SRT Charger/Challenger? They're currently running close to $50k and up, who knows what the supercharged Challenger will cost next year, and what's $15k to jump to a Viper?

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 03/19/2014 at 21:24

1

I agree with the turbo8, but I think a 6 would be stretching it. I would wait for the Corvette to go there first. the other problem with having such a range is the cost to produce such specialized products. The hood and panels would definitely be made from different materials among the models. The real problem is downgrading the Viper. It's not an easy thing to do. And if they did they would lose at least 80% of their sales from Viper purists being upset. Frankly, those are the only people buying them now.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Deal Killer - Powered by Focus 03/19/2014 at 21:26

1

Couldn't agree more. You can't validate the price anymore. There are too many great alternatives. I love Mopar and the Viper, but if I had the money, I would probably swing towards the 911.

signintokinjalol > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/19/2014 at 21:27

2

Does the Viper have to sell well?

It never did, or am i wrong?

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/19/2014 at 21:27

2

Doing all that though would open it up to those who would otherwise buy competition, aka Corvette. There's no reason for the viper to cost more than the Corvette, considering their performance is almost equal, while the Vette costs half the price.

Cherry_man1 > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/19/2014 at 21:28

1

It competition is mostly the new Corvette. Which flogs it around the track. Yes the T/A may be better right now but when the new Z06 hits its gonna hit the fan. Then you have to as everyone is pointing out the price point. at must the Corvette costs in total like $77k+ if you option it out a whole lot while the Viper is what? $102K for the base! and at most $128K! They need to drop the base price to around $65K-$85K. Like make a high end model that has the V10 and like the base with a V8 motor for the SRT8 Challenger and keep the current suspension setup. They need to do this and it will maybe bring it back.

Battery Tender Unnecessary > yamahog 03/19/2014 at 21:29

0

Different cars though, a 4-door sedan and a (relatively heavy) 2+2 sports car. But you bring a valid point.

Battery Tender Unnecessary > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/19/2014 at 21:29

3

CRider > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/19/2014 at 21:31

3

If the Viper is going to cost more than a ZO6, it needs to be faster than a ZO6. SRT should keep it away from the leather wrapped cruiser, and turn it into a track monster. The performance doesn't match the numbers. It needs more power, and it needs to put the power down better. You can't charge 120k + for a muscle car when the C7 Corvette and new Porsche is out there.

yamahog > Battery Tender Unnecessary 03/19/2014 at 21:32

0

2+2? Don't sell the fat boy short, you could comfortably fit 3 manatees in the back of a Challenger!

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Battery Tender Unnecessary 03/19/2014 at 21:35

0

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/328350…

This dealership needs to reevaluate themselves, or possibly learn to read a window sticker.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > CRider 03/19/2014 at 21:36

0

Needs 700+hp turbo v8. And another diet.

Soloburrito > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/19/2014 at 21:39

0

Honest question, does the viper do anything better than any other cars in the price range to justify the purchase?

Big Bubba Ray > Deal Killer - Powered by Focus 03/19/2014 at 21:41

0

Came here to say the same thing. I think it lacks the refinement that a car that costs $100,000 should have. Don't get me wrong, I love them to death and if I ever had the money, I'd probably buy one before any other supercar, because snarling V10. People who have the money to spend and want a fast, high horsepower car would rather shell out the cash for a 911, GTR or an R8 because they are much more refined automobiles. Easy to drive, can be had with an automatic and probably a lot easier to live with than the Viper. It's a shame the car isn't doing as well as it could be.

AthomSfere > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 03/19/2014 at 21:41

0

Ferrari is still doing V12s are they not?

I think the 10 is the right choice for the Viper, but the rest of the platform needs serious help. Turbo the 8, AWD, Oil Slick Cannons... Something new that screams Crazy Ass SRT Viper!!!

Big Bubba Ray > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 03/19/2014 at 21:42

0

You've hit the nail on the head with the auto transmission thing.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Soloburrito 03/19/2014 at 21:51

1

I really don't think so. The big selling point is how much better it is than the last Viper. I guess we are supposed to think a v10 is special. And, it would be, if it didn't sound like shit and actually had notable specific performance figures.

Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/19/2014 at 21:56

1

I can't explain why I don't want it. Tagging onto what Battery Tender Unnecessary said, IMO, the Viper IS overpriced. But at the same time, there isn't any other place where it can be priced without sacrificing the exclusivity and pulling buyers from other brands. It's just that, American supercars will always be in my heart, the perfect one is just one with some luxuries (don't need seats made from the same people that make Ferrari seats, leather lined everything and stuff) and a huge engine. The fact that the Corvette already has more luxuries than I expected is good enough for me and apparently a lot of other people to want a Corvette. It's not that the car isn't worth the money, it's that the words "100k+ budget" and "American sports car" rarely will overlap in what people want in a car. SRT, leave the 110k+ to the Europeans and just offer the big engine-relatively low but still medium-high price American sports car we all want.

thebigbossyboss > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/19/2014 at 21:56

1

I love the first Gen vipers. Badass car, way cooler than a corvette. But if you're buying the 3rd gen viper, the only reason you are doing so these days is to stand out a little, and the reason it does that it is the first gen car. That's the viper everyone remembers. If your in it for the driving, just buy a Z06. Just as fast.

Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna > AthomSfere 03/19/2014 at 21:59

3

To me, the generally same shape is kind of understandable? I mean like the 911, Viper, Corvette are cars that have the be the evolution over complete redoing kinds of cars, they always have to hark back to its lineage in its shape, and the Viper suceeds in that. Like shape isn't something they can change without losing even the hardcore Viper fans that buy it now, so Chrysler better look for something else they can change.

CRider > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/19/2014 at 22:00

0

No v8, the v10 is what makes it unique. It just needs a redesign to allow it to spin a little faster while maintaining the torque a Gallardo lacks. The diet, yes, and a new chassis.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > CRider 03/19/2014 at 22:03

0

If it's going to stay a v10 it needs to be a new smaller block. 640hp from 8.4l is shameful. Make a 6 or 7 something liter v10 that sounds decent, gets better MPG, and the same or more power. Chrysler always had the best engineers, what happened?

AthomSfere > Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna 03/19/2014 at 22:07

0

You certainly can though. Corvette, compare a C1 to any other generation. Or a C4 to a C5.

If it makes sense, it makes sense. And even with the 911, there are people who don't like that it hasn't change, ever.

But back to the Viper, it looked great as a flowing, liquid-ish design.

The two cars that I think share the design philosophy the best (Add sharp edges to these mentally)

The Viper outclasses them, sure. But the language, the swoopy elegant curves of it. You can't take that away and consider it the same. I think at least.

Axial > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/19/2014 at 22:09

0

I wouldn't count on the Corvette going turbo-6 if that 6 you predict is a V6. I would never, ever, ever buy a V6 Corvette. Don't even care what the numbers are. I know many on the forums share that sentiment. I think they'd sooner shrink the displacement on the V8 than go to a V6.

Inline-6, on the other hand, has heritage with the model and could work. I wouldn't mind seeing that.

samssun > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/19/2014 at 22:13

1

Simple answer: the Viper is a slightly more exotic Corvette, so it should be priced slightly more exotically. Corvette is 51k, Viper is 101k. Bring it closer to 70k, or at least sub-75, and you have a winner.

CRider > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/19/2014 at 22:17

2

Hp/l doesn't matter, stop using ricer math. What other naturally aspirated engine makes 640 hp at 6,200 rpm and 600 lb-ft at 6,000? No, the engine is fine.

Zoom > AthomSfere 03/19/2014 at 22:19

2

What is actually great about the car? Huge engine and good numbers. Speed, not good enough really. The Nissan GTR is faster, and cheaper and has real handling . The C7 is better looking, faster around a track and has better handling .

What? hehehehe

Check your numbers again, rookie.

The GTR might be a shade quicker, certainly not faster, outhandle? not a chance, and costs about the same.

And a Viper will trounce any C7 currently on sale. Game over.

Milky > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/19/2014 at 22:31

0

Honestly I think its price is fine … and it still has a selling point. "Brash & Fast" should be its slogan.

I agree with your HP statement though, and thats where I think the Viper went wrong. The mainstream super cars have moved to the 700hp and thats where the Viper should of been. It wouldn't be any faster to 60, but really it wouldn't need to be. I don't know how they would of done it. More valves per cylinder? Direct injection? I don't know, I just hope they update the HP soon.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Milky 03/19/2014 at 22:34

0

That most likely won't be happening since Ferrari now has a say. I read a few year ago that the Viper can't come close to the F12's power to weight. I also read that an engineer stated that the engine could easily be turned up to well over 700hp, but that couldn't go so well with the higher ups.

BadMotorScooter > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/19/2014 at 22:35

0

Wait, are you saying the market for $110k+ 2-seat, brutishly heavy, cartoon-like, muscle cars is very small?

The problem is there are much less expensive codpieces available that function better as codpieces that don't look like a codpiece.

AthomSfere > Zoom 03/19/2014 at 22:39

0

1.33.70 Covette Zr1 1.35.77 Viper

Milky > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/19/2014 at 22:40

0

:( politics

That was always the Viper's ace. A pity too because the 911/R8/Gallardo show you can still make money while selling alike vehicles.

AthomSfere > AthomSfere 03/19/2014 at 22:43

0

Also, wrong gen Vette.

briannutter1 > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/19/2014 at 22:43

0

Never.ever.read.the.replies. Yes it looks similar to the first gen Viper. Thats not a problem and the same could be said of a 911. $100k for a track worthy limited production hand built car is a great deal. The naturally aspirated V10 produces reliable power without the extra weight and high cg of dohc engines and no affitional weight on the nose in the form of turbos and radiator covering intercoolers that heat soak. The real issue is Viper people Need it to beat all at the track and this car doesnt. They are waiting for an Acr. The last gen acr did so with the aid of massive downforce in the form of a huge ass rear wing and superior tires. Not a bad thing as a 911 and gtr nismo also need the wing to run comparably to a z06. Magazines also quantify acceleration as times rather that trap speeds. Thats given mid engine and awd cars the edge in the numbers that sell cars to the people that can afford them.

Howdy Harrell > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/19/2014 at 23:32

0

It isn't selling well because they don't offer it in THAT RED that they launched the car with. FACT.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Howdy Harrell 03/19/2014 at 23:38

1

I actually posted about that earlier. They still sell it in that color. It's a $15,000 option. So, needless to say, everyone that wanted the color has it. No dealerships want that one because it wouldn't sell.

Mochimaster > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/20/2014 at 00:33

1

I'm realizing that I've never seen the srt viper in my life yet...

I think the problem is that this car is pretending to be something it isn't and will never be. It's too expensive and prestigious, the viper is supposed to be anything but that.

Old-Busted-Hotness > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/20/2014 at 06:32

1

The problem is, Viper's not special anymore. In 1993 it was the fastest thing you could buy, and you really had to know how to drive it if you wanted to stay alive. Now the world has caught up. It's still fast, but so is everything else. It's still fairly brutal by today's standards, but all that does is put off potential buyers.

Put the thing on a diet, return it to its hardcore roots. Make it special again.

Zoom > AthomSfere 03/20/2014 at 12:36

0

After good heat soak, on a long track this is what happens....

Old Viper ACR 7.12..

Newest ZR1 7.18.

And if that 1.35 was Pobst's time, he's been called a pussy, and afraid of the car.

AthomSfere > Zoom 03/20/2014 at 22:50

0

Source for the those numbers?

Don't get me wrong, I like the Viper but for the price it really isn't super competitive. You say "Long track" so more straights, less technical? I would expect the Viper to win, where raw power comes in to play. Even 1 real good straight and the Vipers strength will really come into play, especially if it can get near its top end.

But on a technical track, with less straights the Corvette or GTR has the upper hand thanks to A) Handling (both) and for the GTR faster acceleration, better braking.

(Double checked prices BTW, didn't realize how much the GTR had gone up!).

Lastly, not sure who called Pobst a "Pussy" but c'mon! 1) That has to be one of the least objective terms 2) The Viper deserves that fear. It has a ton of low-tech power going to those rear tires. A good car is fast, a great car earns your confidence... A crazy car like the Viper either scares you, or it kills you.

Zoom > AthomSfere 03/21/2014 at 01:10

1

Ok so you do actually put some thought into this....

Those first Viper coupe pics you have? Think about this....one is 460hp. The other....640 hp.

The Vette (THAT Vette) has one strength the Viper doesn't have, and that's 30k worth of a CC brake setup. So, more corners, more braking, better brakes, that's the strength.

The GTR will never transition as well as a Viper simply because of weight. It makes up for it in sheer grip. Ya ever take two or three fat friends for a ride? in comparison, the Viper transitions like a track star.

So, on short tracks, the Vette has the braking advantage, the GTR the grip advantage.

And, on a long track, (or 50 laps, or 100) heat soak will eventually get the forced-air car.

There are no other advantages, proven by the 7.12 'Ring time, vs. the 7.19:60 ZR1, and the 7.19 GTR. It's still game over. And the T/A is only the beginning of what SRT has up it's sleeve. It better be, because the Z06 is a bad bitch.

I love 'that fear'. Before each time out, while I'm warming up the tires, I'm talking to her. 'Cmon baby, please don't kill me. Please help me to look at least adequate this time out' And two or three years later, with the same car...' C'mon bitch, lets go for a ride. Let's see what ya got for me NOW!' With the Vette? No fear.

I still haven't watched the video, but that was Pobst, wasn't it? hehehehe

AthomSfere > Zoom 03/21/2014 at 06:28

0

Yep, Pobst ;)

And! I think we have finally reached an all around agreement in arguments, although our conclusions might be slightly different.

On coolness alone, the Viper is the winner I think.

Zoom > AthomSfere 03/21/2014 at 10:47

0

Put CC brakes on that Viper, get to know it after a few thousand laps, and even the Good Lord couldn't take me with a ZR1.

TZanfrino > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/30/2014 at 15:20

0

Many other good comments here, and I'd add that (except for hard-core mopar enthusiasts), no one wants a $100k+ Chrysler. While they put out a few good products, the company still hasn't escaped the perception that they're making disposable cars.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > TZanfrino 03/30/2014 at 15:45

0

I've still been thinking about this even though I wrote the article over a week ago. And, I've come to the conclusion that SRT built this car for the only people they knew would buy it, Mopar/Viper fanboys. It's more civilized, but you can't DD it, so it's still a second or third car. People don't know how much Dodge has improved in the past few years. But, for $100-130K there are a million options to choose from. I love the viper, but for that money you could buy a Gen 2, which still looks great IMO, and something else and still have money left over. Me personally, if I had the money I would get a GT40 by Superformance. I think this car needs to lower itself to be a Corvette fighter. It could start with a V8, then a TTV8, then a V10 actually making batshit crazy power.